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Should ecstasy be reclassified? - jonnydonmar - 2008-09-26 15:22:45
http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thread.jspa?forumID=5406&edition=1&ttl=20080926152129
Should ecstasy be reclassified? - Haynes - 2008-09-26 15:43:34
Its an epic question,
and im pretty sure theres no answer,
In my thoughts on a purely philosophical level i feel it an unfathomable infringement of human rights to have alchohol and tobacco legal (and to a large extent not even really considered drugs by many) and drugs like ecstasy and marijuana illegal just because the former are socially acceptable and economically viable and all other number of reasons,
but then again the initial reclasification would have negative effects, even downgrading it to a class b would see a marginal rise initially as those people who at first thought it was too dangerous or were really worried criminally may consider it, and therefore there may be a marginally higher overdose rate for a short period until it levelled out again as the number of people who want to take it would more or less stay the same.
wow i thought through quite allot there,
just my 2 cents there, pretty sure there are huge flaws in my points but there just hypothetical thoughts,
Haynes,
Should ecstasy be reclassified? - Le_Coop - 2008-09-26 16:05:55
Leah Betts died of a water overdose and look how our adorable media played that one out over the years.
You can spend a fortune on fags and beer, hence lots of taxes. Pharmaceutical companies would loose money legalising certain plants so weed wont be legal any time soon here. E isnt worth the hassle yet for the tax income so it wont be legalised. Changing its classification would (in my view) give them less power to enforce so its unlikely to happen but it would be a step in the right direction.
Should ecstasy be reclassified? - Rikki - 2008-09-26 16:25:24
When is the last time anyone even had a good E? Personally i dont think it will make any difference. people who take them still will and people who dont wont! Perhap's we could just legalise them and sell them in chemists that way when they are crap you could take them back for a refund!
Should ecstasy be reclassified? - fornogoodreason - 2008-09-26 16:29:58
mdma should at least be available for theraputic use if not for the whole polulation. it really is ridiculous. i agree with coop the pharmaceutical industries are a bit blocking point. why would they want to allow people to use mdma when they can sell us SSRIs that don't work.
when used responsibily the risk from mdma use come only really from adultarants in pills (pma, 4mta etc) and not the drug itself. your only chance of death really is alergic reaction (which if used responsibily could also be avoided) of which there is greater chance of dieing from allergic reaction to either paracemol or various birth control pills.
that isn't really the issue for me though. i see no reason why anyone apart from me should have any say what i put in to MY OWN BODY as long as i am not harming anyone else. that is seriously fucked up. human rights my arse.
Should ecstasy be reclassified? - fornogoodreason - 2008-09-26 16:32:54
Rikki Wrote:When is the last time anyone even had a good E?i think alot pills in the uk are now piperazine based. (ie shit if you don't know they are and even then most people find shit). i won't put anything other than near pharm grade mdma into my body, it is about you just have to look for it.
Should ecstasy be reclassified? - benjomin - 2008-09-26 18:17:22
Legalising drugs would take the fun out of taking them...
In all seriousness, re-classification does send out a signal to people that it isn't as dangerous as it may well be. Drugs should always have your respect (sounds gay I know) but that means that you are less likely to abuse them.
Should ecstasy be reclassified? - joe_heppy - 2008-09-26 20:52:02
i dont really get why ecstasy is in the same catergorie as coke and heroin and smack n krack and evertin like that, its way more chillin
Should ecstasy be reclassified? - aka - 2008-09-26 20:57:38
joe_heppy Wrote:smack n crackHa, That made me think of waxing "gak, smack and crack" :lol:
Should ecstasy be reclassified? - RipTide - 2008-09-27 01:51:00
it should be 'legalised', or at least be on the same kind of system that we have in holland with the coffeeshops. technically they're not legal, but they are allowed, and i'm sure that people who live in (for example) paris smoke a lot more than we do in amsterdam. and that's just because it's not special or exciting to us. of course there are people addicted to it (it's not physically addictive, but it is mentally, and that's the toughest one), but there will always be people addicted to everything, i even remember reading about someone being addicted to milk...
so imo, if they'd legalise it it would make it less exciting to take drugs, therefore people will do it, but they'll grow tired of it more quickly.
also you used to have special stands on festivals here where you could have your pills tested, but that has gone now as well, really ridiculous. they will never ever be able to stop drugs, it's just part of our (and by that i mean the worlds) culture. it would be so much better for everybody if they'd just accept that and see how they can work things out so that it get's taken responsibly.
and i totally agree on the alcohol and cigarettes thing. i do smoke cigarettes, but i don't drink, and it's almost a crime to not drink. people think it's ridiculous if i order a coke or a (fill in what you like)-juice in a bar. it's so socially accepted to drink, and even if you drink every night noone will say anything bad about it, while if you snort coke (not that i condone it, or do it) every night you're labelled a junkie. while coke is in fact not physically addictive and alcohol is. noone has ever died from smoking to many joints (unless you count cancer) but a LOT of people die from alcohol every day.
i hate to bring it back to religion, but i once read an article about marihuana, and it used to be 'legal', at least there were no rules about smoking or growing it, but then some priest declared it 'the weed of the devil', and therefore it got banned everywhere.
rant over
Should ecstasy be reclassified? - Le_Coop - 2008-09-27 09:55:07
Just research the amazing power and multiple uses of Hemp and youll soon see why weed is illegal.
Should ecstasy be reclassified? - eltax - 2008-09-27 10:31:33
more importantly why is weed a B now? makes no sense
Should ecstasy be reclassified? - RipTide - 2008-09-27 10:52:19
Le_Coop Wrote:Just research the amazing power and multiple uses of Hemp and youll soon see why weed is illegal.i know, it sort of does everything you want it to do, right? they used to make everything out of hemp , till cotton and plastic came along, wasn't it something like that? and hemp was a lot stronger then cotton etc, so they figured they'd sell more stuff if it was made out of cotton (since it's not as strong, so needs replacement more often), i remember reading something like that.
so yeah, the war on drugs (like all wars) is also about on thing: Business
Should ecstasy be reclassified? - Rubicon - 2008-09-27 11:06:28
Drugs are baaad mmkay?
Should ecstasy be reclassified? - wankydave - 2008-09-27 12:09:21
tbh i dont think it should. anyone who thinks that e isnt dangerous is a fucking moron (and yes i know it cant really kill im talking about long term effects)
Should ecstasy be reclassified? - RipTide - 2008-09-27 12:16:56
but what about the longterm effects of alcohol? alcohol kills your braincells, marihuana only paralyzes them, so when you stop smoking it they will 'come back to life'
and also alcohol is the cause of a lot of fights, whereas when people are stoned they can't be bothered to fight
my solution is to just ban alcohol, and legalise marihuana/hash, and make sure they control what get's put into xtc, and that there's places where you can have them tested, so that it can get taken responsibly.
Should ecstasy be reclassified? - jonnydonmar - 2008-09-27 12:19:17
weed/hash... very good.
skunk very bad. naughty.
Should ecstasy be reclassified? - fornogoodreason - 2008-09-27 14:45:56
wankydave Wrote:tbh i dont think it should. anyone who thinks that e isnt dangerous is a fucking moron (and yes i know it cant really kill im talking about long term effects)you are very wrong.
of course morons who pop pills every single weekend are going to fuck themselves up, but thats not the point. and if someone wants to fuck thelmselves up who are you to say otherwise.
Should ecstasy be reclassified? - wankydave - 2008-09-29 18:48:54
i cant be arsed to type an essay at you so im gonna keep this short: how am i 'very' wrong? legalising it would send out the idea that its safe and therefore ok to do all the time. this is clearly a very wrong message to send out!
with regards to your second point i dont think many people are 'wanting to fuck themselves up' as you reckon. i think many people who take it arent aware of the long term damage it causes. they are miisinformed and thnk that no deaths as adirect result = must be safe. as i previously said legalising it would only increase this opinion. but then this also can be a result of the realsation that most of the scaremongering about ecstacy is bollocks. i think proper education regarding effects is whats requried rather than ridiculously misguided opinions (on both sides)
plus if you legalise ecstacy on the premise that people should be free to 'fuck themselves up' where do you draw the line at what you do and dont legalise?
Should ecstasy be reclassified? - Electropoppets - 2008-09-30 19:17:50
ecstasy shouldn't be reclassified, because that'll send out the message that its safe and won't do you any harm. i've never taken ecstasy and i downt paln on it any time soon.
i saw one comment on that news article thats aid "there are plenty of car accidents but cars are still legal". so what? most car crashes are caused by someone else being an asshole. accidents (if they can so be called) from taking ecstasy are caused by you being an asshole.
and wankydave, yes ecstasy can kill. some chav twat somewhere will pop pills at a rave and dance all night, so he'll use up loads of body fluids. then if he doesn't die of dehydration he'll drink a fuckload of water and die from a water overdose.
Should ecstasy be reclassified? - fornogoodreason - 2008-09-30 20:13:58
what so you think tobbacco should be made illegal too? what about alcohol? both are argueablly more dangerous than mdma. and there are plenty of other legal drugs that are far more dangerous than either. you must be having a laugh if you think safety and legallity are related. check this table. http://img261.imageshack.us/my.php?image=41949092drugsgraph416my3.gif
check where mdma (ecstasy) is. that is why you are very wrong. (i do disagree on some points with that study and it depends on what point of view you are taking... e.g. in some ways heroin is harmless, in some ways it obviously isn't)
trust me many people know they are fucking themselves up and simply don't care. what about smoking, everybody knows it is deadly but plently do it anyway. i do agree with you though that more education and information would be useful, and also that scaremongering has probablly done more harm than good. but at the end of the day people who ingest substances (legal or illegal) without researching about them are idiots. people can't expect to be spoon fed everything.
illegality creates a black market also which is an important fact to consider. i believe all drugs shoud be decriminalised. like i said as long as i am not harming someone else why should anyone but me have a say on what i put in my own body.
dave, my writing style and passion and confidence in my beliefs makes me sound more aggresive and unfriendly than is intended. i respect your opinion, it much more balanced and thought through than manys. you are still wrong though :p
Should ecstasy be reclassified? - andy8271 - 2008-10-01 00:32:44
Electropoppets Wrote:.whats your point?
yes ecstasy can kill. some chav twat somewhere will pop pills at a rave and dance all night, so he'll use up loads of body fluids. then if he doesn't die of dehydration he'll drink a fuckload of water and die from a water overdose.
a lot of things 'can' and do kill
the same chav twat could neck a litre of vodka and do the same
just because it can kill someone being irresponsible doesnt mean it should be banned, a lot of people take mdma or smoke weed responsibly. a lot of people drink responsibly too. why should they be punished because of a few idiots
Should ecstasy be reclassified? - decadence - 2008-10-01 10:26:11
the whole concept (or at least table) of drug schedueling needs to be given a big re-think.
saying to some one 'this drug is slightly more harmful/illegal than this one' is not a method of coping. Holland aren't exactly the saviours everyone makes out when you read up that thy are considering reclassifying mushroom because of the amount of accidents that occur from them (a tourist throwing themself off a roof was the most recent example), but they do have their heads screwed on right with regards to harm reduction and better differentiation between recreational drug users and dealers. It is ridiculous that it is still classed as highly as cocaine and heroin though.
Should ecstasy be reclassified? - fornogoodreason - 2008-10-01 18:07:08
being around cokeheads should be plenty punishment for taking cocaine.
Should ecstasy be reclassified? - Seppeo - 2008-10-01 20:19:30
decadence Wrote:the whole concept (or at least table) of drug schedueling needs to be given a big re-think.The amount of accidents happening with mushrooms is utter bullshit, its hyped by the media.
saying to some one 'this drug is slightly more harmful/illegal than this one' is not a method of coping. Holland aren't exactly the saviours everyone makes out when you read up that thy are considering reclassifying mushroom because of the amount of accidents that occur from them (a tourist throwing themself off a roof was the most recent example), but they do have their heads screwed on right with regards to harm reduction and better differentiation between recreational drug users and dealers. It is ridiculous that it is still classed as highly as cocaine and heroin though.
THe french tourist that trew herself of a roof, she was already depresed and what not. But what about people who drink a lot? End up in hospital drive themself dead what ever, I think if you calculate the money being wasted a person by drinking alcohol and then fucking things up is way higher then that rate for people on mushrooms.
And what about the testlabs for Ecstasy, isnt that just the best way to do it, you cant ban drugs, cant legalize them. But you can make sure no one is taking any pill with deadly shit in it. Would cause the lessest harm to society.